Thursday, May 24, 2012

What's the Difference?

“Billy, go to your room and clean it! If you don’t you will not be playing with Jimmy later today.”
“George, I told you to wash the dishes an hour ago! Now get them done or you can forget about watching that ballgame tomorrow.”
An area of submission that I am struggling with is the very essence of what makes up a sub – the giving up of one’s rights. I understand the first illustration with the expectation a mother has with a child in trying to teach them discipline but why is it that the grown man, in the second example gives up status, equality and respect to the woman to whom he is married?
Are submissive men insecure? I think deep down they must be. Why else would they want to be ruled, disciplined, and made to be ‘the lesser’ especially when married. I mean, we hear about people marrying someone 15 years their elder and we sometimes say ‘well they are looking for their mother (or father)’. Is there any difference when a man dates or marries a woman significantly older or when a man asks if his wife will become the leader of their home?
Does submission somehow go back to a boy’s childhood and his relationship with his mother? I can say that (right or wrong) my mother raised me in such a way as to associate obedience with pleasing her. When I was good, she liked me. She smiled. I got freedom to do those things I wanted to do. But when I disobeyed her, not only did I do wrong, I was bad. That last phrase is significant because now I too associate disappointment with being bad. Mom punished me. She scolded me. She also didn’t like me – or so I felt. Did that type of reward/punishment affect me as I grew into a man? I think it did. I have a desire to serve and please. I do not like disappointing others – especially Katie. I can’t help but feel bad and feel that she not only is disappointed with my actions but also with me as a person. Because of this, I desire to please her.
And so my question to those Domme’s and subs that read this blog, if you look underneath the surface, do you feel that submission is born and raised in childhood or is it due to some other aspect of life that doesn’t have to do with the mother/son relationship? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
I’m Hers

12 comments:

  1. I am interested to see where this conversation goes. Thank you for the post.

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  2. SH, What are your thoughts on this topic? Why do you think you are the way you are as a submissive man? Loved to hear some introspection.

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  3. Mr. IH,

    Right, well the question as I understand you asking it, is “Is there some genetic predisposition to being submissive” or perhaps “Is there some environmental conditioning during our formative years which develops one becoming a submissive later in life.”

    To be honest, I have no idea. That is why I was looking forward to the upcoming comments. I have crossed paths with many. I honestly do not see any similarity in backgrounds. For me, I am very sensitive to beautiful women. I masturbated a lot as a young man, and into my adulthood too. Women are something I am infatuated with and they hold a tremendous amount of power over me. I do know this background is not common in submissves though. So the premises as to “What causes one to be submissive” is still an enigma to me. Sorry. I just do not have an opinion and it is not because I have not given it a lot of thought. I have. I just can not find a commonality. If I had to guess, I would say it may be something innate in all men that if properly uncovered and developed is available for all men to enjoy. This would negate the bull men who counter such an argument so that too is a theory on shaky ground.

    -SH

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  4. …giving it some more thought while I was preparing my wife’s breakfast and lunch, I think I have finally come to form an opinion on it. Looking at the animal world, it is very common for a population of animals to form with one male being permitted to mate with many females. This is known as the “dominant” male. I think in people too, most men are not of this type and instead have innate in them a pleasure living subordinate to women to drive them into a supportive role. This to me makes the most sense as I see most men able to live in an honest pleasurable existence secondary to a women.

    To take it a step further, and I know this is a toe over the line of controversy, I believe a very natural relationship dynamic is one where a women marries a submissive man and he and her live out their domestic lives together with the woman also keeping steady boyfriends along the way. There was a documentary on the Opra Windfree network of such a poly relationship and all three (the women who had the largest bedroom in the house, the submissive man who lived near the kitchen, and the bull boyfriend who had a secondary bedroom upstairs) were very happy and content. The woman and boyfriend had a child who was mostly tended to by the submissive man. The submissive man also cooled and tended the family garden. He did not work. The other two did. Later on in the program, the bull boyfriend got another girlfriend and it was my impression that he and the women later separated their relationship, with the submissive man remaining around indefinitely.

    Anyway, I think that is my view that there is nature which makes most men able to be content and enjoy a form of submissive pleasure when under the authority of a women. Some men though are dominant “bulls” in our population. Further I think the best relationship is for a woman to marry a submissive man to have as a domestic partner, keeping him obligated with fidelity to her, while she enjoys secondary relationships with “bull” men when she so chooses.

    Hope this helps.

    -SH

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  5. I don't think that my desire to submit to a woman has anything to do with how I was raised specifically. The only thing remotely related to that was that my mom would constantly complain about how little my dad helped around the house and she would say things like: "I hope you don't end up like your dad, expecting people to do everything for you". In her way, I think she was telling me to respect women. But it was things like when my dad would eat a banana, he would just leave the peel out. When he road his bike, he would just leave it out instead of walking it into the garage. I think this lead me to be neat, not submissive.

    I doubt there is any genetic component. Part of my early blog posts included reflections on when I "felt funny" around dominant women. Such as Julie Newmar's catwoman character. I now recognize that those feelings were erotic arousal. I can cite several other examples of that - dominant Bond villains, female wrestlers, etc.

    Pre-FLR, I felt like when we had sex it was me "pulling one over on her"; kind of like I sweet talked her into having sex, or she felt like I "deserved" it. I felt like it was an obligation to her. She certainly did enjoy her orgasms, but I don't think she would have missed sex if I didn't initiate it. It is so much more fun knowing we are playing the way SHE wants to when SHE wants to. Sex is about her pleasure, and mine is secondary. It feels more genuine to me, and I believe her confidence has soared. There is nothing sexier than a confident woman.

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  6. What I beleive is that most men have a gene of some type that tells them they have an obligation to protect women, and to care for them. In different men this gene plays out in various ways. In some men, the submissve type, it plays out in a way that tells them that serving the female is somehow a part of their obligation of protecting and careing for. And yes, a part of the drive that comes from the gene is the need to please. These men are such a treasure to have in your life because their most natural joy derieves from serving and pleaseing. When trained properly these men are the men that do not need to be told to wash the dishes. Love, Kathy

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  7. You hit upon several things that struck me as "strange" when I read them. After reading the comments made so far, I can see that there are many different views on the subject.
    Having said all that, it has been my experience, speaking from a unique position (married to a woman 23 years younger, having spent over 30 years as a Dominant and over ten as a submissive), that most submissive men are NOT weak. On the contrary, it takes a pretty strong man (ordinarily) to submit himself completely to any woman. I know several men (personally) who are actually quite dominant in their lives yet submit everything to their wives.
    There have been studies on the subject. It turns out that the men who seek out professional Dominatrixes lead very dominant roles in their everyday lives. In those cases, it is a way to relieve the pressures of their jobs, or even their lives that cause them to seek ways in which to relieve these pressures and let someone control them. It's a release, an escape, for most men who submit to a woman. I won't say that is the only reason, certainly there those with weak personalities, but it is normally a strong personality that ends up submitting.

    Good question, though!

    nemo

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  8. SH, I hear you and to some degree I agree with you but if I evaluate your position critically when comparing it to nature I see inconsistencies. The female black widow always tries to eat the male after copulating - always. The strongest male is always the alpha with respect to gorillas or lions. In other word, in the animal kingdom there are consistent patterns that are the rule. Female gorillas do not lead - ever. So your example has holes in it as you can't make the same parallel to humans and you indicate that in your comments.

    As an aside, I think the Opra channel example is more of an anomaly than the norm. I think most women want only one man and has only one man.

    LovetoSubmit, You indicate you don't think that submissiveness is from a parent child upbringing, nor is it genetic. I'm still curious as to what you think it is from.

    Kathy, thank you for commenting. I read your blog often and know that you feel strongly about the 'gene theory'. I didn't believe this personally until I read a post by a woman whose husband was diagnosed by a psychiatrist as having submissive traits that. It made me wonder if this 'diagnosis' was because he indeed does have a gene that prompts him to be/act this way. You can read the post here: http://queenandknight.blogspot.com/2012/05/submission-as-personality-disorder.html

    Nemo, I too would like to push you the same as love to submit. I agree that strong men seek Dominatrixes as a way to relieve stress or live out fantasies but that doesn't answer the question as to why a man would want to live everyday under the control of a man. Have any thoughts as to that? Or why it is that you changed from living the life of a dom to that of a sub?

    Thanks to all for taking the time to post.

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  9. Mr. IH,

    You are right. The answer I came up with at the ungodly hour of 4:50am was an attempt to answer a complicated question with a quick and concise response. The truth is human behavior now a days is generally believed to be derived not 100% skinneristically via behavioral operand conditioning or 100% apple not falling far from the tree, genetics. Instead it is becoming commonly taught that behavior is derived about 50% genetics and 50% from environment / operand conditioning. Who we are is really a combination of those to factors. At least that is what is taught in contemporary psychology classes.

    -SH

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  10. OK SH, I'll give you a day or two to mull this over in your cortex for a bit longer and make the question more personal..... why is it that you are a submissive man? Only consider yourself, not men in general. For me, I do believe it is part of my personality, partly because of my mother, and partly a choice on my part...... but what about you?

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  11. …no need. I have the light of day to clear my thoughts.

    The question you ask is esoteric and can not really be answered. In a macro sense, I think women readily took on subservient roles due to societal expectation in previous patriarchal generations. I think it is fair to say the converse will be true for men if women continue on their current trajectory.

    To comply with your wish about drawing a circle around me and answering my personal situation, I do not think behavior can be objectively drawn to a source, as you are asking. As I say, it is an esoteric question which has an overwhelming amount of subjective ambiguity to it. My truth today is I enjoy living as a submissive man under the authority of a women. The question of why I am this way I find a futile exercise due to the subjectivity of attempting to answer esoteric questions. Modern psych will tell us we are who we are due to the 50/50 effect in the previous comment, which I really feel is the answer you are looking for. I am who I am due to the same combination. Not sure why this would not be clear.

    Sincerely,

    -SH

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  12. I think SH is on to something with the 50/50 thing. I'd say I was born with submissive tendencies and I was raised to be submissive.

    Genetically:
    On the surface, I'm normally masculine. My guy friends are 'dudes.' We watch sporting events together and drink beer. But in my head, I think a lot like a 'woman.' I notice this when I'm writing emails at work. As I'm composing it in my head, I'm using a voice and tone of a stereotypical woman. I'm now conscience of it and make an effort to dude it up a bit. I tend to have jobs where I work with mostly women or women are the supervisors.

    When I was younger I was really into fashion and interior design and I worked in fashion merchandising. So I started assuming I was gay. I gave it a go. But it wasn't natural to me. I love women. Immensely. And I love domestics. That wasn't something that was hard for me to learn when my wife and I began our WLM.

    Environmentally:
    I was raised in the Deep South in a very right-winged conservative and religious home. I had a very dominating father that was very strict. My mother was actually quite submissive (like the Good Book commands). I was taught to not speak unless spoken to. Obey or else. Do what you're told and keep your head down. Don't make waves.

    So I think the combo led me to be a submissive man. I have a genetic disposition towards some feminine traits and was raised in a command/control environment. I'm not saying that cooking and cleaning are feminine traits. I mostly mean things society normally equates to femininity.

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