Wednesday, April 8, 2015

Faith, the Feminine and following God

Brad made a comment and brought up the topic of submission, service to my wife and how that meshes with ones' faith. I really appreciated the comment. I don't agree with all of it and what parts I agree and disagree are secondary - at least for now.  I thought the comment and the response by teddy worthy enough for all to see and to think about.  I know that not all who read here has a belief in God but for those that do, where do you stand on this matter? Where does your allegiance lie? Can one submit to a woman and still follow God? Does service to a woman equate with service to God - as teddy noted? ("For as much as you do this to the least of these, you do it to me." That's what Jesus said.).  I'll let you read the two comments and respond as you see fit.  Thanks to both of you for sharing from your heart.  Personally I needed to hear all the two of you had o say so thanks to both of you.
Comment from Brad:
  1. "This is the rub. No matter what you do, how much you get, when you go away as much as you try and convince yourself that you were made to be submissive and it belongs to Katie, it will always feel like acting. You both are playing a part, exaggerating your roles, constantly negotiating so that you can get your needs met in the relationship.

    I am impressed by your long suffering and patience and restraint to control or pressure for more. It what sets you apart. It's what helps you go the distance where others, like myself, fall by the wayside. It is very similar to the parable Jesus told of the seeds and the soil. You got path relationships, stony relationships, weedy relationships, and good soil relationships. So I have two thoughts:

    First, you may be more good soil for for FLR than most. And you may be more good soil that rocks and weeds but as your posts have shown, there may be some rocks that are being revealed or weeds that need pulling. I don't put a lot of stock in the power of gritted teeth will but I do believe in being intentional about your life.

    Second, I look at submission as a God given thing. But more so that it relates to surrendering our lives to Christ more so than belonging to woman as great as she may be. Ultimately we were created to give that submissive place in our life to God, let Him meet that need and cause us to be the great servants he made us to be as men with or outside of a FLR relationship. Just my thoughts.

    As you are much older, perhaps there is nothing new to what I am saying and you have it pretty much figured out. If that be the case, carry on."
    This is teddy and I would like to respond to Brad's comment. You know it is simple to say that true submission is given only to God. If this works for you, fine. The problem is that most of us need an earthly Goddess. That may mean different things for different guys. For me it means having a Mistress who takes control of my life. In a sense Mistress has become the material embodiment of the Christ. By serving Mistress I serve God. Mistress has become the spiritual authority that guides my life. This may seem very wrong to many of you. Never the less Kathy's control has molded me into a better person. There is no doubt that Kathy's spiritual leadership has caused me to become a better father
  2. Comment from teddy:
  3. This is teddy and I would like to respond to Brad's comment. You know it is simple to say that true submission is given only to God. If this works for you, fine. The problem is that most of us need an earthly Goddess. That may mean different things for different guys. For me it means having a Mistress who takes control of my life. In a sense Mistress has become the material embodiment of the Christ. By serving Mistress I serve God. Mistress has become the spiritual authority that guides my life. This may seem very wrong to many of you. Never the less Kathy's control has molded me into a better person. There is no doubt that Kathy's spiritual leadership has caused me to become a better father.

    Through Kathy's group I have formed an acquaintance with several men who are owned. On occasion the ladies have allowed us to interact. There is one thing we have in common. We are the happiest when the women demonstrate active control over our lives. Perhaps there is one other point we have common. That magical, wonderful moment when Mistress allows her boy to kiss her feet is absolute bliss. Some may call it sub space. Being at Kathy's feet transports me from the physical world to the spiritual. Kathy is very much aware of the power this act of devotion has for me. She will usually allow the privilege of foot worship as a reward for good behavior. If for some reason my behavior is not acceptable, the privilege is denied. I am a very spiritual person. As a very young man I even though about joining a religious order. Every evening I got down on my knees to pray. There was some satisfaction in this but it was limited. There always seemed a connection was missing like no one was listening. As an adult male I have found the connection. It is in the spiritual authority that is represented by the divine feminine. I believe in this. It is why women have so much power over us. It is why as mere men we are not complete without the saving grace of the female.

    Hope I didn't go too far with this comment. It took many years for me to understand my self as a submissive. It would do us all good to talk more with friends. As you get older it is a little easier to talk about things that you couldn't discuss as a younger person. The power of the female is the power of God. The love of the female is the love of God. If we live under the tent of the female, we live under the tent of God. This is the spiritual truth that I believe in. It is why many of us feel so content at the feet of the woman. It is the 'why' we crave their authority and control in every day life.

17 comments:

  1. Hi I'm Hers,

    What a tangled Webb!

    I am left with the perseptions, and I may be in error here, do you see God as man like or woman like, or a mixture of both?.

    Regards
    m

    ReplyDelete
  2. m, I was brought up like most church goers in the 60's and 70's with God being equated as being man yet I believe God is gender neutral. I believe God is a spirit and not tied to a physical body the way we are. Don't know what that has to do with the above comments by Brad and teddy but that's my two cents on your question.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I see God as having both male and female elements. Old prayer emphasized mainly the former, but we should also look for the latter, the nurturing God.

      Delete
  3. Hi I'm Hers,

    Many thanks for your reply, I was just curious to know, the question popped into my head. In Brads piece he refers to God as 'Him', while teddy was seemingly none committal; but maybe leaning to God as more Female. It's how I read his thoughts, however I fully accept I could be wrong in this observation.

    In my own case, like you growing up in the 60's and 70's God was a Man, pure and simple, or rather that what was forced down my throat. As the leaders/rulers of the world throughout the centuries have been men it is not surprising that God is portrayed as a man. On one level it is always comforting to know that God looks and sound like me.

    I personally now can see God as more female than male. I will accept gender neutral as a possibility. The thing that however leans me more to Goddess than God is Creation, surely a Womanly, nurturing, growing thing.

    Just my tuppence worth.

    Have a good one.
    m

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. m,
      I have a premise with respect to where I stand in respect to God and big matters of life. I see my brain as like a small coin and see God's brain as an immense circle - larger than one can fathom. When I make statements like "in my opinion...." it is a comment coming from the brain the size of a small coin and when I read something from the Bible I see it as coming from a knowledge/understanding perspective of the immense sphere that I can barely fathom it's breadth. Make sense?

      So when I say that I feel God is gender neutral, what I failed to say is that it says that very thing in the book of Genesis when God says "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..... so God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female created he them". Now that is confusing in some respects because God is referred to as both male and female but the writer used their description of god as 'he'. Just trying to muddy the waters a little more for you.

      Delete
  4. I grew up more conservative and my faith tradition referred to God as Him. While I admit that God is gender neutral. As is in the image of God, male and female, God created them. But I will still tend to refer to God in He, I hope that is not too offensive.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "as much as you try and convince yourself that you were made to be submissive and it belongs to Katie, it will always feel like acting."

    Nothing wrong with acting. All the world's a stage.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Peter T, thanks for commenting. Dont recall you stopping by before. Welcome! One of the things I disagreed with Brad's comment was the very quote you made. I read his comment to Katie this morning - just before I saw your comment and asked her if she felt as if our relationship as we live it was an act. Both of us agreed that it wasn't. It would be too hard to live 'playing' for months and months at a time. We don't act. We are committed to living - simply with her in charge. I encourage you to read the post just put up by Real Women Don't do Housework on Courtly Love. It speaks to this very subject.

      Thanks for sharing.

      Delete
  6. teddy, This last sentence is wisdom "Through Kathy's group I have formed an acquaintance with several men who are owned. On occasion the ladies have allowed us to interact. There is one thing we have in common. We are the happiest when the women demonstrate active control over our lives."

    This is what I need from Katie and what you have so wonderfully expressed. Thank you. I do disagree a bit from your explanation of worshiping the feminine. I do agree that by serving Kathy you show love to God, just as any act of kindness, courtesy, love, etc to another is akin to showing that to God. Where I become skeptical is when ALL of one's worship and focus is on another human and not on God. You commented that you tried that once but felt like no one was listening. Just because you felt something, does that mean that your feeling was true? I question that. As I read your post I couldn't help but think of this passage from Jeremiah 29: For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord.
    To me, the words tell us that God is always there and always listening - even when he sometimes feels far away. Just some thoughts to consider

    ReplyDelete
  7. IH,

    I'm a builder. I know how to put together people, equipment, with materials in such a way as to make things happen. In the world of work I am a leader. I tell men the what, the how, and the when. Perhaps this ability is the creator's gift for me. It is my belief that the creator gave the women in my life another type of gift. What it is exactly I don't understand, but it is there. It is real. It may not be a God like quality, yet for want of a better word it is a type of grace.

    It is my belief that women have the ability to share this special type of grace with men. As males this grace is something we crave. We need it to be satisfied with life. Our happiness depends on it.
    The problem is that God gives this grace only to women. Men can receive it but only through the hand of a lady. It comes to us through her love. As males our challenge is to earn her love (ultimately the grace) through service to her, and devotion to her femininity.

    In a sense being the provider of this special gift is what makes women superior to us. It is what often causes women to seem god like in the eyes us lowly males. This is why we want to submit to their authority. It is why it seems so natural for us to bow down in their presence. This is why I am perfectly willing to accept orders from my wife as well as my daughter.

    Many of you will think what I am saying is a bunch of hogwash. The argument is not about what gender God may be. It is about the gifts God provides to women that are not provided to men.
    For my part I am proud to be a submissive man. I am proud to have a Mistress who rules my life.
    I am proud to have a daughter who has become a Mistress to her husband. All of my happiness and joy in life has come from the blessings of these two wonderful women. Every day of my life I am pleased to wear Kathy's collar. It is a small thin collar, locked, that fits under my dress shirt.
    Without the collar I am naked no matter what other clothes may be on me. With the collar I am fully dressed. I am what you gentlemen refer to as a slave husband, and glad of it.

    teddy




    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. teddy, again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree..... I think I agree.... I'm not sure I agree with everything. I don't know that your wife would agree with you saying women are superior but I get what you are saying. My struggle, if there is one has to do with your source. As a builder if I told you I wanted to build a house in Northern Minnesota and pour a footer 2' deep you'd tell me I was nuts. If I asked you why you could go to a resource and show me exactly how deep the frost in Northern Minnesota reaches and why my footer needs to be several feet deeper. Likewise, when a statement is made that 'only women receive this gift' I want to find an answer and since we are dealing with some type of spiritual gift I look to the Bible. I can't find that. I can find a list of spiritual gifts. I can find a list of fruits of the spirit but I can't find anything that is gender specific. So that's the sliver that keeps me wondering at the fundamental premise of your statement.
      However, I understand what you are saying and do believe that my wife as a type of grace, a type of wisdom, a type of perspective on life and how she handles me that is so different than my approach to life. For that reason I love her and am attracted - even bound to her - as you have become bound to your Kathy. That is the common them that we both share. I don't find Katie as on par with God but rather as my wife and a woman I have pledged my obedience and service to. She and I both understand that we are mortal - that we are flawed, that we have limits. What you and I both share is an understanding that our decisions, our life, our activities and events will all pass through the wise filter of our wives to gain their approval, modification or rejection.

      I don't want to leave this post without me saying how much I appreciate your words. I wrote your wife asking her to reconsider continuing her blog and did so for this very reason - that you and she have the ability to share because you have lived what so many are just starting to live. In 10 years I may look back on my comment and see how foolish my comment here was. I say that because I am so new - when compared to the two of you - in living under the loving authority of a woman. So.... thank you for sharing. I'm sure your wife gave you permission to do so and so I thank her as well for letting you do so.

      Maybe someday we can sit and watch a nice NFL game together - with our wives approval of course. I would enjoy that very much!

      Delete
  8. Beautiful conversation going on here. Brad's point is hard to accept, but has some merit. "That you were made to be submissive and it belongs to Katie, it will always feel like acting. You both are playing a part, exaggerating your roles, constantly negotiating so that you can get your needs met in the relationship."

    We are playing roles within FLR's, but those roles do matter. We all have roles in life; father or mother, spouse, bread-winner, brother, leader, servant, etc. I love the role of adoring husband to a wonderful female leader. I love being a knight to my beautiful and wise Queen, and proud to be her submissive and supportive husband. She is human, and subject to human faults and frailties, and I will love her until the end of time. When I put all my hopes and happiness on her, I'm gonna be disappointed, but I still love her.

    I am also a child of God. He is my rock and my king, and is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I don't have to be perfect, just forgiven through the blood of Christ. I can put all of my hopes and eternal joy in God.

    My wife can't provide the kind of covenant that provides eternal salvation, but she is the most important person to me in this earthly life. I will love her as Christ loved the church (his people) and give her my all, denying myself and living sacrificially for her.

    We can love and serve God and love and serve our beautiful wives with everything we have. When that happens, we have harmony.

    Scott

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Scott, so well put. I have nothing to add. Thanks!

      Delete
  9. IH

    Hey, thanks for having this discussion with me. Have you ever asked your self why it is you want to serve Katie? Why it is you want to cook her meals, clean her house, wash her car, etc. Why is it that many guys like us feel the need to bend a knee when a lady enters the room? Why do women have such great power over us? For me the answer is simple. By the gift of their grace women offer us males a connection to the divine. Without that connection we are boys struggling to become men. teddy

    ReplyDelete
  10. IH,
    Here are some random thoughts on the subject.....I do not subscribe to the notion that women are superior to men or that they are divine creatures, per se. For me, I simply enjoy being submissive to my beloved bride of 30 years. And she enjoys my submissiveness. Just this morning she thanked me for my gift of submissiveness and how I always defer to her desires. I usually put Tabasco sauce on my eggs for breakfast, but yesterday morning she told me, "no Tabasco on your eggs this morning...I don't like the smell." So, I complied.

    But as a retired military officer (yes, I am a bona fide knight), having studied leadership for many years, I can honestly state that in any leader/follower dynamic, the follower has some degree of influence. Call it "topping from the bottom" or whatever. The bottom line is the leader can only lead if the follower agrees, period. Some experts equate leadership with influence.

    My bride and I have only been practicing FLR for a couple of months now. And just as my two hands are equal, one of them is "dominant"...I am right-handed. We have both decided that after 30 years, she is the best to lead our marriage from now on. And that is all. I am still a business owner in a demanding marketplace. But I take refuge in my bride's dominance over me. I greatly enjoy watching her self-confidence grow and how she exercises her erotic power and authority over me. She doesn't give a task list to do everyday, but she has come to expect that I will cook the meals, keep the house, do the laundry, etc. She is a good leader. I should know as I have mentored several during my military career.

    I read somewhere that a D/s relationship is a layer on top of a good relationship. Basically, a FLR will not fix a bad relationship. As Christians, we understand that the only treasure we can take with us into eternity is the richness of the relationships we develop in this life. Scripture tells us that men and women were created to enjoy each other. I enjoy her dominance and she enjoys my submissiveness. Every day I kneel before her and promise to "love, honor and obey" her.

    J's Toy

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hope you gentlemen don't mind me jumping in ..,

    Wow, I love your post, Jay's Toy. You describe a wonderful, respectful relationship that many of us are shooting for.

    I'm compelled to add that the FLR layer filled in a lot of painful gaps in our marriage, that if not fillled, would have caused Donna and I to split. Now we are having a blast and deeply in love.

    Best wishes to you and your Bride, and thanks for serving!

    Scott

    ReplyDelete
  12. I don't want you to miss what I am saying so I will affirm Katie's reaction. Your marriage is not an act, not just playing parts, not just pretending. I see there is real love between you and Katie. I read it constantly that she finds way to let you know she appreciates you, she recognizes your submissive desires, she sees more and more how much it means to you. In all that I am saying, I see a real relationship built on trust and desire to meet the needs of the other.

    ReplyDelete