Monday, January 1, 2018

Are Erotic thoughts Sinful?

A few weeks ago I received the following comment: 

You describe yourself as a Christian in his mid fifties. I am also. My question is how do you see these thoughts and feelings about being submissive to our wives from a biblical standpoint ? The Bible tells us to love our wives as Christ loves the church and certainly that means our love for her should be sacrificial in nature. It should also be life-giving, freeing her up to live her life to her full God-given potential and to fully bloom in all ways. Certainly male submission plays a key role in this. To be willing to lay our lives down, to lay all perceived rights down, for her sake to fully devote ourselves to advancing her interests and do all we can to help her get what she desires most out of life should be the goal. I think the tricky part is when serving her leads us to erotic thoughts and feelings that in fact give us pleasure. At that point are we serving her or ourselves? And is the pleasure we feel pure or of a selfish nature . I am struggling to sort this all out in my own mind and would like to know your thoughts. 

I enjoy comments like this, if for nothing else, because it makes me think. You may disagree with my response and I welcome your thoughts but I'm going to share mine.

I believe the purpose of the Bible is to give us some insight into who God is. I believe it's story begins with perfection (Genesis 1 & 2) and ends in the final chapter of Revelation even more perfectly.  Between those two bookends are examples of life filled with pain and hurt and disappointment and a thousand other woes.  Interspersed are glimpses of what was and what is to come.  I believe the primary purpose of the Bible is to help us understand the profound impact sin had in separating you and I from God. I believe it explains why there needed to be a 'Christmas' and an 'Easter'. We were doomed without Jesus' entry into our fallen world.  

I do not believe the purpose of the Bible is to tell us all about sex.

But when God made man and woman, he made them perfectly. He was pleased with his work in Genesis. In creating both male and female he gave us the gift of sex and I believe he intended us to enjoy sex.  There is nothing dirty, nothing sinful, nothing wrong with sex within the confines of marriage.

Within a marriage relationship, I believe God loves us having erotic thoughts about our partner.  Solomon wrote a love poem known as the Song of Solomon.  It's a poem and although I don't get into all of the symbolism of poetry in genera there is a pretty clear message in this one: He is hot about her and she is just as hot about him.  I mean, Solomon isn't talking about her personality. He's honed in on her physical attributes. He describes her hair, her face, her form, her breasts. The man is horny!

The question by the person who wrote the comment above wondered if it's OK to feel horny, to have erotic thoughts.  My answer: absolutely!!!  When I tell Katie how beautiful she is, I'm not doing so because I'm checking out her knee caps.  Not a chance.  It's her more erotic features that typically attract the attention of my eye, and my desire.  Want to know what they are? Read the 4th chapter of the Song of Solomon (see end of post).  Katie's lips (because I love kissing them); her face (because I love touching it and admiring her smile and beautiful eyes); her body (because it is completely feminine her figure is still fabulous, even at her age; her breasts (because.... well just because :)  ).  When I tell Katie she's beautiful I'm thinking physical and sexual! 

After reading this post to Katie for approval she brought up the topic of erotic thoughts as a Christian.  "If it's wrong for sex and thinking about sex to be wrong, then why did God make women with the ability to have multiple orgasms? Why did he make sex pleasureable?"  Great questions and I believe the answer as at least some to do with how God intended sex to be - enjoyable. 

I could diverge here, but won't in thinking about why women were equipped to handle multiple orgasms but men only one (without having at least some down time).  

Where I think things go wrong is that same 'admiration' is extended with erotic, lustful intent to women who you have no right to. Porn addiction is a prime example of that same admiration for a woman's physical body, gone wrong.  That woman should be off limits. Drawing one's mind to that hot babe with the quadruple D, medically enhanced breasts and lipo-suctioned butt isn't what makes my wife happy.  Instead it will earn me a punishment and an admonishment.

One of the benefits to living as my wife's submissive has been the change in my psyche. My attention is to be devoted to one person primarily: her. She wants me to admire her body. She wants me to love her body. She wants me to long to be near her. She wants my eye to admire the curve of her cheek and the line of her jaw. She wants me to compliment her on her outfit and tell her how hot I think her perfume smells.  She wants me to lust after her. She has no desire for me to have those same feelings with women I see at work, or who live next door.  

Because she's taken the time to put a cage on my cock. Because she's mandated I deny myself until she's ready for me to release; because she's told me I'll obey her; because I vowed to serve her above all others, she knows without doubt that I am her treasure. She loves being called mistress because it reveals my submission and the 'goddess' level of reverence to which I hold her in my minds-eye.  She desires my lust. It makes her feel secure. 

And all of it is healthy in maintaining marital intimacy and keeping our minds centered on one another.  That kind of love is special indeed. That kind of love is cultivated by a continual 'Song of Solomon' horniness for one another and I think God is pleased with that level of marital fidelity.

Love to hear your thoughts

I'm Hers 


An edited (shortened) version of the Song of Solomon, Chapter 4 New Century Version

The Man Speaks to the Woman

How beautiful you are, my darling!
    Oh, you are beautiful!
Your eyes are like .....
    Your hair is like .....
Your teeth are like .......
  
Your lips are like .......
    and your mouth is lovely.
Your cheeks are like ...........
Your neck is like .........
    
Your breasts are like ........
Until the day dawns
    
I will go to that mountain of myrrh
    and to that hill of incense.
My darling, everything about you is beautiful,
    and there is nothing at all wrong with you.
Come with me .......
My bride, you have thrilled my heart;
you have thrilled my heart
    with a glance of your eyes,
    with one sparkle from your necklace.
10 Your love is so sweet, ....
    Your love is better than wine,
    and your perfume smells 'wonderful'.
11 My bride, your lips drip honey;
12 My bride, you are like a garden....

26 comments:

  1. I’m Hers
    As a submissive husband devoted to my wife I agree that there is nothing sinful about the thoughts and feelings I have for my wife. We are not regular churchgoers but I know enough about my religion to know that the way we feel about each other is wonderful and unique. I think the reason I getting to the point of rarely getting an orgasm as time goes on is because the devotional significance of being denied has overtaken the control over me and obedience I show that she expects. My wife and I have periodically discussed my chastity, and other aspects of my submissiveness, in such sweet ways that I think she kind of seeks my approval, or whether I am still ok with it all. But she’s a Mistress and disguises it with also being “authoritarian’l which she enjoys very well. Often. her touchiness and moods are displayed to put me in my place and also because she know I like her to display her power.
    FL

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  2. As a Catholic married man, I agree that the devotion and sacrifice expressed/enjoyed with an FLR/DD relationship are consistent with living a good life. (Of course, I probably do spend too much time ogling 'hot babes' online...)
    But to adore your wife, and even 'suffer' for her sometimes, seems to me a loving, and also very rational way to deal with a crazy world.
    Thanks for this thoughtful post.
    CK

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  3. CK
    I should probably let I’m Hers weigh in first, but I thought it would be ok to answer you. No ‘hot babes’ for me. It’s not allowed by my wife. Even if it was I really never did that except for the usual magazines when I was a curious kid and later back in my college days. But now I honestly think it’s disrespectful to women and don’t. And of course there is the issue of being locked in chastity that would discourage me from looking. I’m still a healthy male. I do get unlocked by my wife from time to time when we are intimate although she admits our bed seems to have become a “No orgasm zone” for me most of the time lol. I think it’s added a level of stability and devotion to our marriage that my wife likes. And I’m a lot nicer now. I don’t think of it as suffering, at least not anymore. I have plenty of intimate pleasure. I’d never think of going back to the way things were before.
    fl

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    1. fl, I was going to leave the above comment alone since you addressed it quite well. Thanks. We are all on a journey and we each have our strengths and weaknesses - those things that are easy to say no/yes to and those that are more difficult. Being open with our spouse goes a long way in helping us through our weaknesses and become more appealing submissive husbands for our wives. Wishing you well!

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    2. Admire all women (not only wife) is normal. All people admire nice women and in bible it is as normal and good. The Bible:

      The Song of Songs:
      "Return, return to us, O maid of Shulam. Come back, come back, that we may see you again. Why do you stare at this young woman of Shulam,
      as she moves so gracefully between two lines of dancers? How beautiful are your sandaled feet, O queenly maiden. Your rounded thighs are like jewels,
      the work of a skilled craftsman."

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  4. I'm Hers
    Thank you for a simple but straight forward answer to a difficult question. You hit it spot on, saying that erotic love is not only not a sin but a wonderful gift within the marriage relationship. It is sinful when it is outside the intimate connection of a husband and wife. So, porn or ogling other women would be sinful, but those same reactions and desires for my wife are a pleasure gift for the monogamous commitment to one another. Since discovering this lifestyle and with encouragements from posts like yours, we are now into our 2nd year of my being kept by a loving, seductive mistress-wife and I spend most of the time secured in a chastity device. That tool has enabled me to have victory over masturbation and selfish pleasuring and to devote my full energy to her and that is WONDERFUL! Thanks for you blog and for your encouragements.
    K&S

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    1. K&S, I think there is a great verse that makes so much sense when thinking about things that you aren't sure are good/bad. It's the last verse in James Chapter 4. I'm paraphrasing but it says this, "if you know the right thing to do and don't do it, that's sin. So to CK (above) I'd say that if you are oogling online while checking out hot babes and you have to suddenly close your laptop when your wife walks into the room, that should tell you something. It says you have something to hide and hiding is never a good thing when it comes to trust, openness and honesty within a marriage.

      As for your victory over masturbation, I wonder..... if you were suddenly let out of chastity for a few months would the habit return? If not, that's victory. The fact that you can't is a victory of sorts but I wonder, if its complete victory. Of course, you may never ever get to test my theory :) And that's probably good too.

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    2. Thanks for your encouragement and for your sharing from James. It does fit our setting. I have no interest in any one but my wife. That has always been the case in our nearly 45 years of marriage, but being in this relationship where she has absolute authority to regulate our sexual life and my expressions and use of my sexual self has only intensified my love for her and my desire to focus on her alone. Being kept in chastity lovingly by her has made me intensify my love and service for her in a far more sacrificial way and I find so much pleasure and joy in doing so. Selfless vs. selfish attitudes really are far better all the way around.

      AS to bad habits......It has made a huge difference as the focus has changed from what I think I need to what she may need from me. Being hers is far better. Actually, I was out of my device for about 3 weeks with Thanksgiving - Christmas - and into New Years. That's the longest at one time that I've been out for over 2 years. I can honestly say I had no desire to self-pleasure during that time but did miss the more intense sensations of being in my device and the ongoing longing for serving my wife that comes with denial.

      I never want to go back. Thanks again! I look forward to your blogs and growing more in our love relationship with your encouragements! Happy New Year.

      K&S

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  5. Wow as a Stephen Minister and devote Christian and submissive male, i thank You for how well You stated this.
    Amen and Amen

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  6. I’m hers,
    I want to thank you for your thoughtful response to my question. I guess I am struggling with why I have these submissive feelings in the first place. My wife loves the devoted service that I provide. And all the willingness to do much of the housework. But she doesn’t really enjoy sex and so when she suspects that I am being driven by sensuous erotic feelings, it seems to be displeasing to her. I agree with you on what the Song of Solomon seems to imply and teach us. But it just seems my wife would be happier if my motivation was just to love and please her with no erotic feelings and no sexual gratification coming from it. This to me though seems beyond my control. I am praying that God will help her receive and appreciate my adoration for her sexually. I am truly a devoted servant to her and that I hope never changes. Her love language is “acts of service “ so she does very much appreciate that. I love her and want to please her. I know that she likes that and it’s what God desires of a husband. If my motivation is pure in His sight, then maybe she will in time come to enjoy my sexual desires to serve her as well.

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    1. I hear what you are saying. I was once married to a woman that responded to me tying pleasing tasks with greater sexual desires together. She never got it and as a result she always felt my motives for pursuing her sexually were wrong. She resisted sexual intimacy for the majority of our marriage and I never ever understood. Additionally, her sex drive for me remained relatively low and things in that area never resolved.
      I don't know how you can go about doing this but in hindsight my recommendation is for her to look at your love language - physical intimacy - as a legitimate need - just as much as her need for you doing things for her, in the hope that she will reach out and accept your physical pursuits more readily. I wish you will.

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    2. I'm Hers has answered well. Let me throw in my feminine view point. I have come to the place that I understand God designed us to derive pleasure from those things He wants us to do. In other words, if we only ate food because we HAD to, most of us would be nutritionally deficient.
      God gave my husband "pleasure" in taking care of my sexual desires because God wanted him to do it. And I for one am so glad He did!

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  7. CK here - yeah, not perfect. In our culture, though 'ogling' is pretty nearly unavoidable. Even if I were way more careful than I admit I am, temptation is no further than the next Victorias Secret commercial, or even some of the links on this blog!
    Continuing to try to deepen my commitment to my wife is how I attempt to balance the scale. Even there, selfish desires still abound! "Grant me chastity, but not yet!"

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    1. When I generally mentioned these posts to my wife about the sinfulness of thoughts by submissive men we talked about it a lot. My wife is actually more religious than me. We came to a conclusion about a few things about our own relationship and feel that it is fine. If we love each other and are both happy and not hurting anyone it’s ok. One thing about chastity we agree on and this may have been mentioned before and even in this blog. A typical man spends so much of his youth orgasming alone or seeking lovers. I did. On the other hand, many submissive men, from what you read anyway, spend much of their later years happy or fulfilled being denied orgasms. In my case I brought the idea of chastity to my wife. She ended up liking the whole thing and noticed our marriage was better. I felt the same. I was a greater help around the house and so much more cooperative. That hasn’t had a positive effect on my orgasms but has on our marriage if that makes sense. fl

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    2. CK, I completely understand. Our culture is inundated with sexual overtones where ever we (men) look. I commend you for keeping your commitment for your wife in lieu of all of the sexual distractions.

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  8. At times I have had feelings of guilt over the extent I love and worship my wife. I found some solace in St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians where he says to love your wife as Christ loved the church and died for it.
    I think that’s pretty extreme form of love. So these days I believe that when I love my wife god it interprets that as love for him.
    It’s also never been lost on me that perhaps the lesson from Adam and Eve is how easily Adam did what his wife wanted. We are all slaves to Eve and that is perhaps our fate.
    Thanks for another thoughtful blog post.

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    1. To love to the point of giving up your life is a deep deep love indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm certain God honors the depth of your love to your wife. "To as much as you have done it to the least of these, you have done it to me"
      Carry on

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    2. But do not forget give to God the prayers. And also give to God thanks for this beautiful and top Gods gift - woman.

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  9. Thank you I’m hers. I appreciate your words and your blog. I will continue to serve and lay down my perceived rights. I will do all I can to bring her happiness and hope God will change her heart. She does still allow sexual intimacy once or twice a week which I trying am thankful for. But she tells me she doesn’t enjoy it so I feel some guilt about it. I want so badly to give her sexual satisfaction and pleasure and would of course do anything she ask. I love performing oral on her but she says she isn’t comfortable with it.
    She does love to have her feet massaged and allows me to do that every day, for which I am so thankful.

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  10. I'm a Christian and have read the Bible cover to cover multiple times over the years. When I have done so, something that always strikes me is the huge imbalance between the amount of emphasis Christian churches (of both Protestant and Catholic varieties) have placed on sexuality and the supposed temptations and "sinfulness" associated with it, versus what Christ actually said about it. While sexuality has historically been a major focus of church doctrine, usually in a negative way, outside the context of divorce and adultery Christ had virtually nothing to say about and seems to have been more or less indifferent to the whole subject. It simply isn't a significant focus of his preaching. On the flip side, the whole "family values" focus of today's organized Christianity is almost impossible the tease out of the Gospels, as Jesus had virtually nothing at all to say in support of family life and, in fact, the few times he talked about it at all it was in the context of encouraging people to de-emphasize the family, or leave them entirely, in order to follow him. So, my personal view is that if we aren't talking about divorce or lust associated with adultery, the simple answer to what Jesus would have thought about our sexual practices is he simply would not have cared.

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    1. Dan,
      Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I kind of agree with you and kind of don't. Although I agree there isn't lots written about sexuality there is enough said to give us some framework about our approach to others in general. Like you said, there are clear statements - don't commit adultery and lusting after someone you aren't married to is no different (Sermon on the Mount passage). We're also told to love our spouse to the point of giving her our all. So within the context of marriage, I agree that still opens up an entire freedom if you will to play and share. One of the gifts we are given is the gift of joy and to enjoy our spouse on an outing or in the bedroom is welcomed by God (in my opinion). I would agree that as long as things remain consensual there is nothing wrong with deviating from what we consider to be traditional - this is the one position we'll do it - sex and associated activities. And if I apply this to your blog - to be spanked if that's what the two partners enjoy doing. Thanks again for sharing!

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  11. Also nice biblical text:

    "Let her be thy dearest hind, and most agreeable fawn: let Her breasts inebriate thee at all times; he thou delighted continually with her love." (Prov 5:19)

    "...let Her breasts inebriate thee at all times..."

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  12. Thanks to all of you for these comments.

    I'd just like to add though, that it's an inevitability of being human that we will notice the sexual attractiveness of women other than our wife. I don't think this should create guilt- it doesn't have to undermine the veneration and love we have for her.

    Vin.

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    1. Obviously, one does not want to ACT on it!

      Vin.

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  13. I have read with great interest the comments shared by others.
    Before I throw in my two cents worth, I want to comment on the word LUST.
    Many people think the opposite of the word love is hate. That is not true.
    The opposite of the word love is lust.
    Love is to give what is yours to give.
    Lust is take what is not yours.
    When a man lusts after a woman he is not simply recognizing her beauty, he is allowing his thoughts to go to the place that he is taking from her what doesn't belong to him.
    That aside, I am relatively new to acting on this lifestyle. I always had the desire to put the needs of my wife before my own. That always did something for me. After many years a "closet" submissive I engaged my wife in an effort to help me with my masturbation problem by purchasing a chastity device and having her hold the key. Now nearly two years later so much has changed. I am locked 24/7 most of the time. Our sex life is focused on her needs being met. Additionally I have found myself engaged in more and more of the housework in a sincere effort of making her life better. When her comfort is purchased at my expense I feel fulfilled. Since we no longer desire any more children, my orgasms are treated as an unnecessary distraction that we are ridding our life of. When I masturbated, my thoughts we usually of other women. I am constantly having sexual thoughts, but these are predominantly about my wife and I anticipate sooner rather than later they will be solely about my wife. I cannot think this is anything but a good thing that pleases God.

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