Sunday, September 16, 2018

Getting All Requires Demanding All

I think most of the mild to moderate dominant women in the world want enough of their husbands in order to feel their love, their attention, and their appreciation but I don’t believe they take the time to ponder how their husbands' mind work and how they can make that mind work to their benefit. They fail to realize that if they only assumed a more controlling/dominant/demanding posture, they would ironically meet so many of their husbands' submissive needs. By being that woman, they would draw out his love, allow him to be more affectionate, and gain his attention and heart in ways that might surprise her. In other words, by being more demanding she can get exactly what she wants. She’d get the love and attention and devotion she craves. But to get her needs met, she’ll need to act in a way that is outside of her comfort zone. She'll have to actually become the dominant wife she believes in her heart she is (but really isn't).

Does that make sense? Does it make sense that by being more of who she really says she is, but who she doesn't want to self-associate (e.g., the demanding wife), she will get to experience more of that 'good him' and eventually see less of that 'just ok’ side of him. She'll be able to relish in his doting love (that is hidden inside) and see less of that quiet, closed, aloof man that fails to open his heart the way she wishes. She'll have a husband who wishes to express his love, wishes to spend time with her, wishes to open up about his day and wishes to go above and beyond in his efforts to please.

But to experience that, she'll have to exert some effort. The question is: How much effort? Personally I don't think it takes much. Yes, it will probably require a little more for a few months but then most likely just a little. She'll need to reframe his worldview on who is most important. She'll have to make sure he understands if he doesn't step up his game, there will be a price to pay. She'll have to exert more control She'll have to pay attention to what he is and isn't doing and respond appropriately. She'll have to have the strength to tell him, "because you didn't do this, I'm taking this privilege away from you for a few days," and let him deal with the consequences of his inattentiveness.

I know If I were that woman, I think I'd think long and hard about the possibility of getting even more good out of the man I love most.

What women like Katie and other mild-dominants fail to recognize is that if they would only address their submissive-husband more firmly they would gain so much more. But in order to reap the benefits there needs to be a change in mindset. (The mindset would need to be or along the lines of actually embracing the fact that, he belongs to me; that, I deserve this; that, this is what he wants, that, how dare he think he can do less when I know he has the ability to do more; that, I can't believe he would give me less than his very best, and finally, that, I'm going to have to punish him so this doesn't happen again). You see, by creating distinct and real boundaries that he can see (like deadlines, chore lists, charts, time limits, etc.) and by having the guts to render a consequence when he chooses to disobey or not complete what you expect you not only teach him to not repeat the behavior, you SPEAK his love language in ways nothing else can. It's an ironic twist that strictness can be an expression of love but I know firsthand it absolutely is.

Earlier today I was reading through some notes I had formerly jotted down on this topic. Katie happened to be in the room and asked me what I was doing. I told her I was thinking about a post and then read her what I had written down. It was this: "if she doesn’t ever really take me she won’t ever really have me."

Her comment, which I assume was in defense of her belief that she really does own all of me was, "well I told you what things I want you to do today", She said this (with the belief that) if she merely told me what I was to do it would be enough. Inwardly I shook my head. That is our issue right there. How many times have we discussed it’s not JUST about her telling me what to do. It’s making sure that what she tells to do gets done and gets done on her time schedule. It's not about telling me to do these 10 things but rather telling me she wants these things done and me knowing that if I don't get her list complete there will be consequences rendered.). That's what ownership looks like.  As it is, if I don't get this and this done today, it's no big deal. And it's not that I typically ignore her but rather know that if I don't get to it, it's OK with her.  If she owned me. If she had the fortitude to render consequences, I think I would at least plead my case if I couldn't get something finished.

"Katie, can I work on this tomorrow. It's taking me longer than expected." Knowing she expects something and realizing I can't meet that expectation would force me to come to her (that's submission). It would cause me to ask for time (that's dependent submission). She would then have to deal with my plea (that's putting her into a position of power). She would have the option of granting me more time (about which I would be grateful). She would have the option to say no, get this done now (that's expressing dominance). She has the power to bargain: "OK, but I want this done by tomorrow evening as well" (that's expressing dominance and reminding me who owns who. 

And if I chose not to complete the task she can render a consequence to negatively reinforce poor behavior.
All that sounds like a lot of work on her part but it really requires very little effort. Less we forget, the work required is not what is important. What is important is the desired change. What isn’t as important is whatever inconvenience she (or me) experience while addressing said infraction. It's not about any one single incident but about enhancing our D/s relationship. Dealing with a small brush-fire is never really about the here and now, it's about the overall relationship. It establishes and reinforces roles. It creates a pattern that both soon acknowledge and accept. It reminds both parties of who they are, and in the case of the submissive, it ironically (and this is important) allows her to express 'dominant' love to him.  And ladies, if you don't get that you should talk with your husband and better understand how he responds to your tough love. It's that important - at least I believe it is.

As for me personally, it’s not that I want to disobey. I don’t. But I am sometimes lazy and I am sometimes forgetful, and I am sometimes selfish and I do put my needs ahead of hers at times. And all of that sometimes gets in the way of me serving her. All are expressions of my independence rather than expressions of expected dependence. I find a lack of oversight (on her part) to be frustrating and that frustration reveals itself by me NOT wanting to go over and above. And every time I behave this manner, there is no consequence - and that lack of consequence is a reinforcer. It's a reinforcer that verifies it is OK to behave this way. It is OK to put me before she. It encourages me to act this way again. And it is this behavior that stifles the love, attention, devotion and even husbandly worship she most cherishes.

For example, the other day we were about to leave the house. Katie is a stickler for leaving on a set time: 11 AM, 12:45 PM, etc. In this instance she wanted to leave by noon and she let me know, "We're leaving in 12 minutes," she told me at 11:48. And, as if on cue, she left the house at 11:59 AM and got into her car. I was about to follow but noticed there were dishes in the sink that need to be rinsed and put in the dishwasher. I knew she was out there but rather than leaving the dishes and hurrying out to open the car door for her as I knew I should, I decided to clean the dishes. It took a few minutes of work and I remember thinking," it won't matter that I keep her waiting". And so I did what I wanted (rather than what she wanted and did so without consequence). Now Katie didn't know of my poor attitude but she was aware I didn't drop everything to leave when she exited the house. She knew I wasn't there to open her car door. She knew I was inside doing who knows what while she impatiently waited for me to appear. There were quite a few indicators that I didn't measure up to her standard. I put my desires above hers. And what was the lesson learned? Because there was absolutely no consequence, I learned that it was OK to put my needs before hers again.

Because she doesn’t render a consequence for me being late; because she is OK with me not organizing her vitamins for the upcoming week when she wants; because I'm not held accountable whenever I don't vacuum the floor on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday as she told me to do, I am permitted to live my life as her semi-submissive and semi-selfish husband.  And to be honest I don't like being a semi-submissive. I want to be hers. I want to know I am hers. I want to feel her ownership. I hate being a honey-do guy who simply does chores to do chores. Submission isn't about chores. It's about knowing I'm owned. It's about being kept on the straight and narrow. It's about obeying her with the little things in order for her to know I will obey when it really matters. It's about her being willing to change my mindset from a 'me-first' thinking pattern to a 'her-first' way of looking at life. It's about her living as the queen in our home and expecting queen-like service.

Sadly, I am a husband that is kind-of a submissive but fully so. It's not the best place for a submissive to be. Hanging out in limbo-land does not fill my heart with feelings of love from my dominant wife. But I can't make myself owned. Until she decides to make owning me a higher priority than what it currently is, she will never get my very best - at least not consistently. She knows what my best looks like. She's seen it and felt it. She's also seen the so-so, moody side of me which isn't so desirable. She's had plenty of time to figure out the if/than response when exerting firm leadership and how positively I respond to it. She knows I have a need to be owned, controlled as well as a need to feel her dominance. She knows how much love I have to give. She knows there is this side of me that wants to worship, wants to kneel before her, wants to kiss her feet, wants to dote all over her and let her know without question, just how much I love her.

Because I know she loves the owned me, I don't understand why she won't really take all of me and do what it takes to make that happen - which is to step up her game and render consequences.

To do so, would mean not only saying thank you for something I've done well, but 'punishing' when I don't. Is trying this way of leading such a scary thought? Is experimenting with rendering consequences so fearful that it petrifies her to say "you’re not watching a football game this weekend because you didn’t do this and this and this like I told you". I mean is standing up to me and putting me in my place so bad? Is it so bad for her to say to me, "you’re staying locked tonight and tomorrow night because you didn’t get out of bed when I told you to get up and go make my coffee." I mean we’re not talking about me spending three months in prison. We’re talking about her training me like she said she would. We're talking about her reminding me I am to live in service to her. We're talking about her making it quite clear whenever I crossed a line I wasn't to cross that it will not be tolerated. We're talking about her addressing a specific behavior to limit its recurrence in the hope that by doing so, it will be less likely to happen again. We're talking about her expressing dominant-love in a way I crave. It's about me understanding that my list of chores isn't just a honey-do list, but rather, an expression of my submissive service to the woman I look up to with each and every chore I complete. It's about her demanding obedience and not tolerating semi-compliance.

I keep waiting for her to become this woman. I keep waiting for her to reinforce day after day we are not equals. I keep waiting for her to come to understand that by being demanding, it will push me to do better. It will cause me to love and respect her all the more. 

I'll say this once again: If she isn't willing to truly take all of me as her own, she won't ever really own all of me.
Can I be any clearer? Can others identify? Love to hear your thoughts. Love to have Katie change how she handles me when I don't do all she requires.

I'm Hers

14 comments:

  1. I think the aspect that needs more attention is:

    "The mindset would need to be or along the lines of actually embracing the fact that, he belongs to me; that, I deserve this; that, this is what he wants, that, how dare he think he can do less when I know he has the ability to do more; that, I can't believe he would give me less than his very best, and finally, that, I'm going to have to punish him so this doesn't happen again"

    Very generally speaking:
    many women struggle with the idea of "I am worth it". "I am not good enough, I am not worth it, I dont deserve it..." is a deep embedded hidden believe in many women.

    Helping her to strengthen her self- esteem and self -worth might be a way to help you in reaching your goal.

    If she is like me, the slightest sign you show that you are unhappy with a task/chore etc makes me question myself whether I am being unfair or mean to you.

    ReplyDelete
  2. An interesting comment, lawyer. As you say, many women (and also some men) are lacking in self-esteem and think they are not good enough. If they have dominant urges, they are often reluctant to act them out. When I first met my partner, I did not think there was any chance that she would want to take the active role in spanking. I spanked her a couple of times, and she seemed to have a neutral attitude towards it. She did not hate it, but was not especially turned on by it. Then one day she spanked me. It was very mild, just a few smacks with her hand on the seat of my briefs, but enough to sting a little. I asked her if she was into giving spankings, and she said she had never spanked anyone before, but the spankings I had given her had put the idea into her head. She said that she had enjoyed spanking me, it was much better than being spanked herself. She was happy to keep spanking as part of our relationship, provided she was the spanker. Shortly after this we bought a wooden paddle, and she now sometimes takes me across her knee and paddles my bottom so hard that I can't sit down for the next few hours. I think spanking me definitely strengthens her self-esteem.
    richard

    ReplyDelete
  3. I am a submissive husband and have been in an FLR for over twenty years. My wife continues to struggle with holding me accountable for the tasks and duties she assigns me. Holding a submissive husband accountable has an easy and obvious payoff for the wife - she gets things done that she wants, and she can largely live the life she wants with the man she loves and owns. For the man, I think, the payoff is knowing that she cares for him. So many times in the past when I obviously deserved to be held accountable (poor chore performance, poor attitude, disrespect) , or she promised a punishment and then forgot about it, I came away feeling as if she didn't care that much about me or our relationship. When this happens, I often sink into a depression. But, when she does hold me accountable (e.g. through more chores, punishments, etc.) I may not like the what she assigns me, but I absolutely come away feeling loved and cared for. To me, an FLR is all about love and the ways that a wife and husband express their love for one another.
    Les

    ReplyDelete
  4. I don't think you are unusual in this, and I do understand it. You respond to certain behaviours.

    But I bristle at the suggestion that Kate (or any other woman) should behave in the ways you like and if she doesn't it's because [reasons you made up].

    You say things like 'she fails to realise' and imply she needs 'guts', or to 'change her mindset'.

    Rather than finding failings in her as to why she doesn't behave in the ways you like, have you considered that maybe she just... doesn't like doing that?

    There is nothing wrong with wanting what you want. I get it.

    There is also nothing wrong with a dominant woman going 'I don't enjoy that, it's 'work' for me and I'm not interested in it'.

    If you've talked about it, if she's had a go at it, and it's dropped off, I think the latter is a lot more likely (and common) reason than 'she doesn't understand'.

    If you turn this around, she could be saying 'my submissive fails to understand that he should just do what I ask, he needs to have the guts to step up and *be* submissive, and change his mindset so that he serves like he said he would.'

    You have a long term relationship, so you are in a different situation than most, but I hear versions of this a lot from people in NEW relationships and to them I say 'if you've talked about it, if your partner tried for a while but they couldn't sustain it, you're just incompatible'.

    I assume you have talked about this many times, but it seems to me that if you dig a little deeper and figure out what the underlying reasons are (it's boring, it's tedious, I just don't like it because x, I don't want to feel like your mother, whatever), then you can start to talk about solutions that make it work better without the expectation that she behave in ways that don't sit so well with her.

    Best of luck.

    Ferns

    ReplyDelete
  5. I am also a submissive man and I can relate to your writings. I often have thought of trying to talk about this with my wife. But I find it difficult, because I feel that her reluctance to act/punish comes from her gentle and caring nature. She is just a very nice person and also feels that her acting/punishing is very much guided by the way I react.
    We are now reading the book "Surrender, Submit and Serve Her" by Key Barrett. As suggested by the author I read it to her. Whenever she has an opinion about something in the book, she tells me or asks me how I feel about some aspects.
    In this manner, we commit to her being the Head of Household, so no topping from the bottom. But do get a chance to deepen our mutual ideas about our FLR.
    When I used to bring up my ideas such as the ones you have expressed, my wife would look at me (you know in that particular way) and say: ok, so I assume you want to talk again? Right then I know that she considers it my way of directing or topping from the bottom.
    IM-HERS, you write that Katie has read what you had written down. Can you share with us how she reacted to this? Maybe we, readers of your blog, can learn from that, when we want to bring up this subject with our wives. Thanks for your great blog.

    ReplyDelete
  6. What you wrote about was my idea too about what was wrong with our FLR. I was wrong. Mrs. Lion is a gentle leader. She needs training as much as I. The thing is, she won't become stricter and more demanding by showing her the benefits of the change. This sort of change isn't something someone can choose to make. I learned that the hard way.

    We ended up by agreeing that she would enforce specific, simple rules with punishment. Her punishment for me is spanking. She selected it.I asked about revoking privileges, etc. She was uncomfortable with that.

    After over a year of punishment for small rules -- spilling on my shirt or eating first -- she felt comfortable enough to make rules about things that matter. She has been selecting behaviors that bother her.

    You want punishment for not completing assignments and she doesn't really care if you complete them on time or not. That means, I think, that you want to be punished for things *you* think she shouldn't like. I did the same thing.

    The fact is, Katie is in charge. She decides what counts and what doesn't. That's a very difficult pill to swallow. True surrender, I think, is when you accept what she wants, not what you think she should want.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I identify with you - it’s like you were writing from my brain. But, Ferns is right - it’s what we want from our wives, not what our wives want to do. Your wife is highly intelligent; she understands who you are. Do you understand who she is? That is the question I had to answer to address the frustration of not having what I thought I needed. You’ll notice that there were 2 “I” in that sentence and no “her”. I would love the same type relationship you seek. Unfortunately my wife doesn’t see her role that way. She’s dominant in a way that is her. So, if your hers, it must be on her terms.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I really appreciate reading your blog entry IH, and the varied responses to it. All the responses are thoughtfully presented. As submissive husbands we relinquish power to our wives and, as several of your responders mentioned, we then are required to live according to our wives’ rules and wishes, even if they are not the ones we would like. Otherwise, we threaten to be the actual one in control when we want our wives to take on the more dominant role in our relationships. I get it.

    But on the other hand, I think that IH makes a very good point. I think that the most important letter in an FLR is the R – Relationship. Relationships do not exist in isolation; relationships imply an interaction between the two parties. The reason we desire to be submissive husbands is that, in a best case, we submissives get something out it. That something is the feeling of being owned, controlled, and required to obey our wives. I love obeying my wife and doing as I am told by her. However, if there is no response from her to my obedience, then I am performing as if in a vacuum. I really have no desire to work my but off for 2 or more hrs daily cleaning house, preparing dinner, ironing, etc. after spending 8-10 at work without some sort of response from my wife. That recognition can be a simple comment acknowledging that I am her slave and she is pleased with my work, or an acknowledgement that I did not perform up to her expectations and that there will be consequences – more chores, being grounded, corner time, etc. Without that recognition, positive or not, it is not an FLR – it’s just me doing a lot of work.

    Like many of the respondents, I too have gone through much of what IH has and is going through now. My wife & I had many conversations about this. Finally we entered into an agreement about each of our responsibilities – mine to love, honor, and obey her; hers to love, honor and lead. That agreement went into specific behaviors and responsibilities required of me; and ALSO behaviors required of her – mainly to lead and rule, provide guidance, and to enforce her rules. At first, being the kind hearted woman that she is, she had trouble providing consequences when I my performance or behaviors did not meet what she expected of me. She is not a mean person and did not want to be mean to me.

    Through our conversations I tried to explain to her that her enforcing her authority over me was not mean at all, and indeed was a way that she demonstrated her love for me. I desire to submit to her, and when she demonstrates her authority over me , I feel loved and cared for in a way that no kiss, sex act, or gift could ever match.

    A few weeks ago I pissed my wife off by something I said in an intemperate moment. In the past, such behavior by me was usually met with the silent treatment for a day or two, until I could apologize. On this most recent episode, after my outburst, she simply pointed to our bedroom and said, “Go to your corner and think about what you just said to me. I’ll be up later to talk.” I immediately obeyed without comment and spent the next 90 minutes standing in the corner, during which time I did think about my behavior and went over how I should have handled things differently. When she finally came up to allow me out of my corner, I kneeled in front of her and we talked for another half hour – I apologized sincerely, acknowledged her authority and that she deserved better from me, and she forgave me. The problem was over - -we both felt loved and cared for.

    Although IH knows that Katie loves him, he longs for more of the tangible expressions of her love through her authority over and discipline of him. I know it sounds crazy, but I think for most submissive men, this is what we long for our whole lives. I can understand how this must seem so at odds for women who, for the most part, see themselves as care-givers. If only for us submissive guys they could see that care-giving manifests itself is different ways.
    Joe

    ReplyDelete
  9. Interesting. When I read this, my thoughts were the same as Lawyer and Ferns. Personally, my husbands proactive submission has done the most to boost my confidence in taking leadership of our marriage. If you have given Katie the gift of your submission should you not give it freely with no strings attached, and let her use it as she sees fit? Perhaps if she knows it is constant she will be more able to stand firm on her pedestal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can identify with your comments, even though I fully understand what is expressed in the blog. One of the most challenging things I have found is to keep open communication both ways between husband and wife. In our setting, my wife tends to "clam up" when she is unsure, or feels challenged, or is in a new situation. Even though we have been at this on and off for the past 3 years and in earnest about it for this year, she still struggles with taking an assertive lead and tends to do really well for a week or so and then falls back to almost ignoring the lead role and simply lets things go as they go. That becomes frustrating. I fully understand and work really hard at giving her total freedom to lead as she chooses and not interject my expectations or desires, but to lovingly submit to her. The struggle comes when there isn't any place to submit or obey. I think Ken did make a really important point in the title.... and for both husband and wife to expect full and total submission and support, leadership and care they both must put themselves fully into the relationship. If someone has ideas how to improve the way to communicate when needs aren't being met for either husband or wife, I'd love to hear it. It is a two way street and having a wife who will discipline when her man fails her and reward him with regular loving instruction and leadership will induce that support from him so discipline is rare. I know I thrive on her taking an aggressive lead in my life and I know she enjoys and appreciates the support I give her. So, we keep working on it too. Thanks I'm Hers for the blog!!

      K & S

      Delete
  10. I tend to agree with Lawyer on this. If you want or need more out of this relationship, you need to speak up. Communication is key. To experience what you want, you also need to make that effort. A successful relationship cannot all be the responsibility of one side to make everything sparkly and wonderful. Also, did you make the decision to submit to only the parts that are easy for you? Food for thought, perhaps.

    V~

    ReplyDelete
  11. That is it exactly! I feel I'm in the same boat. "I told you what I want." but then I'm on auto pilot and there is no followup util I'm done and I get the next assignment. Part of the feeling of being controlled is to have her watching over me... not every second but keeping an eye on progress and such (for larger jobs)

    ReplyDelete
  12. I can very much relate. It took a me long time to persuade my wife to try discipline -indeed whipping me. I had to pretty much beg/sulk/demand that she would do it for me. I think I probably used emotional blackmail about her just not loving me enough or caring enough about my behaviour to discipline me. Terrible – I know. But I knew it was important to me and ultimately us. Sometimes good communication includes letting the other party know how important something is and pleading hard as well explaining. Rather than feeling glum and letting things fester.

    I think many women do not like to be thought of as being cruel, they like to be thought of as being kind and the idea of giving discipline to their husbands just seems wrong to them. Surely the husband should serve his wife and mistress out of respect and because he loves and adores her?

    What, I think, they fail to see is that the subby husband sees it as being caring and loving. I think that they just do not understand. They don’t chose to be lazy and cruel in a real sense. They just don’t see that being what they think is kind is cruel. If their husband was suffering with sore feet they would put in effort to alleviate it and they don’t understand the mental anguish caused by not giving discipline. A good mistress understands she must hold back her kinder nature in order to be truly kind and give him the gift of discipline. As Lion noted a ‘normal’ wife may need some training to be a good mistress.

    I think explaining and reading articles together is also very helpful. I showed various blog posts and essays to my wife and I think it helped. I appreciate you are in a different position to me in that you had already submitted before marrying Katie and so your ability to persuade her is restricted by your vows whereas we had had more than 20 years of ‘normal’ marriage.

    What the connection is in my brain that somehow links female power, pain, submission, to generate what must be a powerful dopamine rush, lots of oxytocin and endorphins too, I don’t know. But there is clearly some pretty hardwired programming in the submissive male that gets activated. Once my wife was convinced to try she found she enjoyed it. I was so grateful and loved her so much more after she really let go and gave me a severe beating when I deserved it. She now says my behaviour and demeanour is always improved after a good spanking.

    But even though she now understands that having me massage her feet is a treat for me which is even sweeter when she adds a threat of strokes if I don’t do well enough. I would still say my wife is too soft and lets me get away with too much.

    As Joe, noted above, all relationships require give and take. I think in the mistress / sub relationship he gives service, but she needs to give discipline for it to work properly.

    It’s difficult to get the right level – sure I want more and have an appetite for her to be stricter but would I really want that all the time? I don’t know. I suppose I dream of my limits being exceeded just a bit.

    Pete

    ReplyDelete
  13. I’m Hers,
    I understand you desire consequences when you need them.. I feel the same. My wife often lets things go and I don’t feel like I’m owned, or that I’m owned less. But then, you need to look at other forms of her ownership expression, like chasity or the tasks you must do. When my informed me she purchased a couple of maids outfits for me to wear when I’m home for several days during the week, that made me feel very owned. She says I will wear them several days a week, and I will also be in my wig and full makeup. That means those days I will be confined to home doing chores, or run the risk of being spotted by friends and neighbors. She said she knows she can trust me not to change clothing and go out, but if she ever found out that i did I’ll be wearing polish on my nails and toes, and she’d put a couple of red lipstick impressions on the top of my head so I couldn’t remove my wig without people seeing the marks. Would she do all this to me? I’d be afraid to find out. FL

    ReplyDelete